Obama's Berlin Moment

Napoleon never invaded Sweden.

So whats the point of this article??? Europeans are bad, and so is Obama for doing a speach there? either this article is ridiculously stupid, or I just don't get it

James, your history is awful. Although I agree with the general sentiment of the article, these glaring inaccuracies ruin the impact and set you up for being called names by lefties. Tens of millions killed in the Napoleonic wars? Far too many, more like tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, but not millions. The Decembrists were a pro-democracy, free speech, classical liberal movement inspired by the American revolution. They predated Marxists by a wide margin and would have opposed them vigorously.

First Hercules and now this phallic symbol. What meta-message are we to get from this?

"Decemberists were secret Russian revolutionaries...But Obamanistas wouldn't know about that."
Why wouldn't William Aires and other Obamanistas not know about this?

I wouldn't vote for Obama to escape a death sentence. But McCain and his campaign staff are idiots.

Morning Joe compared still photos of Obama in a helicopter with Petraeus with footage of McCain and elder Bush in a golf cart riding to meet a gathering of press. It was pathetic.

Is McCain's campaign being run by the people who ran Calvin Coolidge's campaign or Herbert Hoover's campaign? I simply cannot believe McCain is repeatedly put in such bad scenes.

Thanks for throwing the election. Would it be possible to nominate a candidate who's actually going to run a serious campaign?

Well, indeed, millions are the right amount. See wikipedia: "Critics of Napoleon argue his true legacy was a loss of status for France and needless deaths. Historian Victor Davis Hanson writes, "After all, the military record is unquestioned--17 years of wars, perhaps six million Europeans dead, France bankrupt, her overseas colonies lost.""

Jimmy - since, as you say, you "don't get it", let me spell it out for you.

The problem with Europe is that their governments are socialistic at their cores. I don't think I have to explain or defend this statement, even to you. Since they are socialistic, they are anti-capitalist (qed). If they kept their rot to themselves, we Americans wouldn't mind. However, there is a large and very strong faction on the left that wants America to be just like Europe. This faction includes the top leadership of the Democrat party and their presumptive Presidential nominee. For him to visit Europe and look for some kind of monument to stand before to give a speech implies that he approves of the events commemorated by said landmark and endorses such events. The problem with Obama is that his ignorance of European history leaves him open to ridicule over the monument he chose. James is simply applying the well-deserved ridicule.

In a nutshell, the point of the article is that American conservatives DO NOT want to be Europeans! We don't want their socialist form of government. We don't want their elitist leadership. We don't want our courts to base decisions on their laws! We fought TWO wars to avoid being Europeans and we don't want to give that away.

All you liberal lefties who admire Europe are hereby invided to immigrate, en-masse and forthwith!!! America will be a better place to live in your absense.

Thor,
A little learning is dangerous. You completely misread the Decembrist revolt. Early during their planning they split into the Northern Society, which as you mentioned, looked to America and wanted limited government, free speech, etc. The Southern Society looked to the Jacobins of the French Revolution and planned a military dictatorshi to restructure society. The uprising in December 1825 was initiated by Colonel Pavel Pestel and his Southern Society. Later they served as an inspiration for the following generations of Russian socialist revolutionaries, some of peaceful inclination, many others of violent intent from the start.
As for casualties of the Napoleonic Wars, I admit I do not know the answer, but I do not think you do either. Nappy inflicted casualties not only in his set-piece battles - of which there were far more than the few mentioned in major survey texts - but also large numbers killed in repressions of resistance movements, such as Spain. Running from 1792 to 1815, from Gibraltar all the way to Moscow and to Egypt, a figure in the millions is not implausible, and becomes even more likely if you include the bloodthirsty years in France 1789-1792 and the Vendee campaign. On just the 1812 invasion of Russia Nappy's Grand Armee invaded with 600,000 men, virtually noe of whom ever returned home.

"...that just about all those magnificent European monuments stand for historical massacres. Even the big cathedrals symbolize the religious wars of the Reformation, which killed more people than anything before Napoleon and the World Wars."

Which Cathedrals? Notre Dame? Duomo di Milan? St. John Lateran? While it is true that there was a revival in art, architecture and liturgy in the wake of the Protestant Revolt, I have never heard of a basillica, let alone a cathedral, built to say "we killed a bunch of protestants, we're great." Also I'd be interested in seeing your statistics on the wars fought during the Revolt. It'd be interesting to see it compared to major conquests in europe over its long history.

Thor -
18th and 19th century armies did not enjoy the logistical support you are accustomed to seeing in modern armies. Therefore, those armies ravaged the countryside, consuming everything within reach like a horde of locusts. The civilian populations of those eras lived hand-to-mouth existences off of produce they grew for themselves, mostly. When an army marched through a region starvation and disease followed in their wake. This is especially true of winter campaigns. When you count the casualties of those wars, the civilian casualties greatly outnumber the military ones. Historic records support the assertion that millions died of disease, starvation and cold.

re: McCain and his ridiculous photo juxtapositions- Could it be possible that the ultimate irony is being played out beneath our noses? Is the Manchurian Canidate being under-mined by the Manchurain Mole? Is there somebody on his staff who is really working for Obama or are they just tone-deaf and stupid? Most likely Occam's Razor comes into play here and it is equal parts their stupidity and MSM cupidity. What a national campaign-"Help me! I've fallen and I can't get up!" Maybe this is a subliminal plea to the aging baby-boomer generation.

"the point of the article is that American conservatives DO NOT want to be Europeans!.... Bubblehead.

You are correct of course, but I'd take it a little further: neither do most American Democrats.

It is true that the Euro loving faction of the Democratic Party are predominantly the liberals with most being the liberal elites. So, by the time you get to moderately liberal Democrats, Democrats in general and Democrats for purposes of party recognition, the numbers of who will be voting and who actually agree with Obama's Eurocrat tripe are significantly low.

Obama really has a very narrow appeal and his base might fool him on this one.

Most stupid article ever.

"The problem with Europe is that their governments are socialistic at their cores. I don't think I have to explain or defend this statement, even to you. Since they are socialistic, they are anti-capitalist (qed)."

LOOOOOL

European gouverments are capitalistic (socialists always critize the European Union would be tooo capitalistic), but with the will to eliminate the bad side effects of capitalism. E.g by trying a "third way", meaning economic interferences when on economic, neoliberal terms allowed and necessary, when extern effects occur as one example. Read the Freiburger School about social market economy.

"Me" prattles about capitalism in Europe.

The alleged "third way" is nothing more than "socialist lite". Anyone who employs a phrase that starts with the word "social" should be treated with the utmost skepticism: "social market economy", "social justice", "social cost", "social welfare", "social justice mathematics", "social security",ad nauseum.

It is uniformly a cover for the belief that some small elite knows what is "best for society" and their superior insight gives them license to interfere with the lives of individuals.

In some cases it is a pretty interesting hustle, but no sale, thank you.

With the possible exception of Ireland, the European governments that exhibit some respect of capitalism are in Eastern Europe, and have recent and unpleasant personal recollection of socialism.

The litmus test about western European nations is what has happened in the US as our tax rates have become progressively less competitive. They begin to look less unattractive because we in the US have fallen off the wagon and are throwing money at government like drunks on Bourbon Street throwing Mardi Gras beads at scantily-clad young women.

The Decembrists are a rock band Fellas.

Some folks don't get what the author wrote but they DO get "We are the change we've been waiting for"????
Hmmm...OK.

Socialism hasn't ever worked wherever it's been tried. So why is it that a lot of people (especially those who live in a capitalist democracy) seem to think that it's a good idea?

France has learned that you can't provide 'cradle to grave' government benefits and subsidize 30 hour work weeks and be competitive. Germany as well.

Less government subsidy, more free market economies work and the world is coming around to how capitalist democracies do things.

I've spent some time in Sweden and try to tell the Swedes how great socialist economies run. They will be very unhappy with you before they tell you how socialism through government control and intervention stinks.

Guys, unless you are history buffs (and I humbly admit being one of them) please do not waste your time on learning the differences between Northern and Southern Decembrist's societies. Please do not learn the long wavy way which led Russian society from liberal thoughts to unimaginable atrocities. Believe it or not but Russian educated people in the beginning of XX century were very similar to today's American Liberals. They felt tremendous guilt to descendants of Russian serfs, and so on and so fort. All atrocities which happened later were done with a sincere belief that there is no other way to improve a human kind (you cannot kill that many people because of greed, only for noble goals). Instead of reading and analyzing just look around and try to talk to multitudes of Russians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Cuban, and many other people who came to this country just to live and be happy of not having social experiments anymore. Then, if you would like to repeat our experience, try to think what country would be a safe haven for you and your grand-children when your Great Experiment will exhaust itself, and vote for Obama. You will live in interesting time and all your wishes will come true (please re-read this text one more time before jumping). If you are averse to risk either vote for McCain or for anybody else except of Obama. Let us pray G_d to allow us to live in a dull time, to make us personally happy and joyous and give us enough strength to change only things that are really broken. I doubt that our great country is one of these things.

This isn't new; Europeans have fallen for glorified orators before; we need not mention any names. GW has not flip-flopped on Iraq; GW has stayed steady; as has McCain. Obama has been all over the place with no accountability or responsibility; his position on Iraq has been to lose and pull out.
Obama is the "Messiah?" Somebody tell us: Has Obama found Bin Laden yet? Did he create peace in the Middle East yet? In Denver will he turn water into wine, walk on water, AND give an acceptance speech?

What will they chant?

They will chant "O-ba-ma! O-ba-ma! O-ba-ma!"

First candidate since Ken-ned-y! with a chantable name.

What Bud Hammons said, and a lot more eloquently than I could. Europeans have gone very socialistic/left in the past 20 years or so. England blames Margaret Thatcher, because her policy, so much like Reagans, was for smaller government, so a lot of people lost their "dole" money. England is a very socialistic society. With a few exceptions, every citizen agrees to socialized medicine, socialized welfare, etc. It's great if it works for them. America has never been a socialistic society, ever. Good luck turning it in to one. We're allowed to keep and bear arms under the Second Amendment.

Not only has Obamamama stirred the pains of racism, he is causing the regurgitation of Europe's never-ending lust for peace -- or maybe it is war. Why can't the Europeans get along? We have 50 nations here in North America, some with bitter complaints about each other but t'would be the last thing in mind to overthrow one another. Well, maybe if Kalifornia and New Yawk were next to each other things could be a little different. On the other hand we sometimes criticize the Europeans for not fighting the battles that arise within a stone throw - Serbia and Bosnia - for example. They waited until the rest of the world, including the swaggering US to come to put down, temporarily at least, that bloodbath. Just think how large the population of Europe would be if they didn't have wars every few years or so.

this artical sucks

For some reason, this is how you people have made me feel this week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6Uqk3fxFEs

I AGREE MORE WITH THIS ONE!!

Faux News

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yydpWtjqa8&eurl=http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/7/23/21112/4265/346/555963

According to the UK's Guardian it was actually Chancellor Merkel's decision to place Obama's rally by the Prussian Victory Column, Obama wanted the Brandenburg Gate.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/24/uselections2008.barackobama?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

Attendance is expected to be between 100,000 and 1,000,000.

You seem to be forgetting that European history is your history as well. When all those awful events happened, your grand-grand-(...)-parents might just have been my grand-grand-(...)-parents neighbors.

White Americans complaining about European history are essentially complaining about their own history. It's not as if your family didn't exist before 1776. They did, and most likely they were European.

I think most of you here seem to forget a few important things: 1) "Americans" are a melting pot of immigrants, escapees, prisoners and whatever else left the old countries and settled their. [I am not talking about native american indians]. 2) I don't think either Americans or Europeans should open their mouths too wide about the wars either one of them brought onto others in their histories. The "Americans" started by killing the native people they found in the new country... today, they bring war to all corners of the world for economic reasons (oil!). 3) Just as a lot of Americans don't seem to want certain of the things that Europeans favour, Europeans loathe the "hire & fire", no health-insurance, sue anyone for outrageous amounts of money over nothing-attitude of Americans. So, I guess that makes us all human; neither of us has a better or worse history. And your personal angle of looking at things depends on where you stand at that minute. 4) Last but not least: history is not stead-fast. Just because something was built for one reason, does not mean it's meaning [or the point of view] does not change for the generations that come later. So, pipe down a little and see what this guy stands for (if nothing else) (and whether you like him or not): he is bringing hope for change. His candidacy proves that black Americans can make it to the top; so now they can maybe quit crying ;-) That is a lot more than any of the other candidates has to offer.

Come on, you obviously have nothing of importance to say here. Your lack of insight on Germany or Europe for that matter is plainly evident to anyone who's been there. I love how some Americans like yourself still cling to this inflated ego that has gotten them nowhere these last eight years under Bush, the Europeans because of "sound" economic moves have smothered the dollar with the Euro...you are the same fools who used to say look how the Europeans are paying $5 a gallon for gas, well you know what you are too now. This was a pointless boring article in so many ways, it was a typical lame ass journalist way of saying..Oh OK I need to cover something about Europe because that is what is happening now, and for the rest of the year I won't learn or cover anything about Europe. It is pointless and stupid to continue in these manners.

Late comments, without reading the piece (I will read it next)

Obama has rockstar status because of US/European media hype. Europeans are just as vulnerable to populism as anyone else. That is all this is.

Europe as a whole is certainly more socialistic than the US, but there are countries that are beginning move to the right. Germany and France are good examples.

Ireland has been kicking a** in a capitalistic sense for quite a while and I'm not surprised. They are tenacious.

As time goes by we will see socialism diminish. Universal healthcare is proving to be unsustainable and losing popular support.

Obama:

He is a dim bulb, with no experience and is not a great orator. If he is off the written page, he can't speak. Rush has a clip of his press conference a couple days ago (in Iraq?), where the Ums and Ahs totaled almost 8 minutes if you played them back to back without repeating.

He randomly leap frogs from word to word (long pauses in between), without knowing what word will be next until it leaves his lips. He has no idea what he is saying. The guy is a joke.

Europeans are cool for the most part and the French gave us the Statue of Liberty. The Germans held a huge candlelight vigil on 9/11 last year (very touching. Do they do that every year?), that our news media failed to inform us of. My point: We're not as hated as the press says, and we don't hate Europe as much as the press says.

Populism: The only reason Obama is being taken seriously. Populism is the manifestation of mob mentality as it exists in mass media. It is hype and means nothing real.

obamas words are real (some of you Europeans might want to gleen over these words spoken by the messiah):

"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

--Barack Obama, 2 July 2008

From his book (his only notable accomplishment, a book about himself):

"If [black] nationalism could create a strong and effective insularity, deliver on its promise of self-respect, then the hurt it might cause well-meaning whites, or the inner turmoil it caused people like me, would be of little consequence."

Is Obama trying to line up his ducks? Who is this guy really?

Edward seems to be ignoring lessons of both history and geography when he wrote:

"You seem to be forgetting that European history is your history as well. When all those awful events happened, your grand-grand-(...)-parents might just have been my Grand-grand-(...) -parents neighbors.

White Americans complaining about European history are essentially complaining about their own history."

Those of us U.S. Americans who are of "majority" (white) European extraction are most likely here because our ancestors FLED from Europe to escape European crises (religious persecutions, famines, military actions, etc.)

Conversely, persons of "minority / colonial" stocks (largely African & Asian) are here largely because their fore-bearers were enslaved by white Europeans for fun & profit.

And while humans are often doomed to repeat behaviors previously exhibited by their native societies, I would argue that the U.S. American persona (with the notable exception of the South) has been distinct- and different from the European since before the U.S. Civil War.

We've been quite capable of making our OWN, distinctly U.S. American mind-boggling mistakes in civil rights and international relations for more than 150 years...not because we are European, but because we are human...

And what, precisely, does any of this have to do with the content of the Obama speech in Berlin?

I suppose you wrote the same thing when Regan delivered his "Tear down this wall" speech in front of the Brandenburg gate (dedicated to peace through military victory-features the Roman goddess of victory, and was one of THE major symbols of the Nazis?) Was that a mistake? Or are you just THAT desperate for something to criticize.

Hey I am German and living in Germany and I can tell you why people here in Europe support Obama. This is because we are verry aware of the important role that your country plays in international topics, beeing it politics, economy, war, safety etc.!! Think about an person in Madrid, Spain who lost a loved person in the attack of Alqaeda in the Spanian metropole in 2005. You think Spain ever would invaid Irak? I guess you dont know which influence the USA have towards our lifes in europe. And also let me tell you, yes we are able to read critical press about your politicans and maybee have a more clear view on it than citizens in the states!!
And the Siegessäule for us Germans is a place to party (view soccer games for example).

RobertC is correct. some of you guys keep referring to the staging of where Obama gave his speech in Berlin as a faux pas. Reagan gave his "...tear down this wall..." speech there; and Kennedy his "...Berliner..." (which is not just a nickname for a pastry, but what a citizen of Berlin is referred to as) speech.

in any event, landmarks are not the issue. It is intelligent & wise leadership and the ability to inspire others to positive, constructive action. our current president is neither intelligent or wise and his adminstration has inspired action from his supporters thru fear. this is tribal, animal mentality and does not give human beings credit or respect for desiring good, but expects violence, fear, prejudice and vanity to rule the day. in 2004 many who voted for bush were frightened witless and therefore voted out of fear - so much for courageous patriots; in 2004 many voted out of prejudice "let's get to the polls so those homosexuals can't get hitched!... and while we're at it, let's vote for bush.cheney!"; in 2004 many voted out of vanity "hey, he reminds me of ME; a nice guy i would like to have a beer with!". would we choose our child's neurosurgeon because we could imagine hanging out with him over a beer.

no, i think the intelligent, articulate, even-keeled guy is the one i want to get at the helm of this ocean liner and start heading away from the iceberg field. it's mostly the GOP that has been the group of enablers who have kept the drunken captain on the bridge.

by the way, it is not Bush's fault he is in power. he is there because we as a nation are sick. he was, and is, supported largely by people who are fearful, angry, prejudiced, uneducated, hateful, greedy and/or self-righteous. this describes a large population in a country that was founded by patriots who were their dyametric opposites.

As an true American, I am deeply insulted by Obama's rhetoric today in Berlin. Not only did he attack his own country and point out our failings, he also went out of his line of duty by actually apologizing for "American mistakes" around the world. Somehow, Mr. Barack Hussein Self-Righteous Obama believes that he is already our president and as such can apologize for our faults. WRONG! He is NOT our head of state, and hopefully never will be. He has no right whatsoever to say anything like that, especially in Germany, the country from which we had to save the world twice. If anything, he should be demanding more apologies for THEIR faults, which seem to be slightly bigger than ours. (I think about 50 million people bigger, if that's the correct tally killed in WWII...). Obama is bashing his own country to gain political points abroad. Not that the media will say anything about it, though; they're too busy sleeping with him. I find it odd that the media declares themselves unbiased but fails to report that the 200,000 in attendance was a pre-rally estimate and never actually checked, and that they were lured there by free brats and beer provided by Obama's campaign. What I would really like to know is when the media will wake up and stop covering up Obama's faults. If anything, he should apologize for his own now, and wait to apologize for those of the USA when and if he becomes president.

All this meaningless chatter about modern European "socialism" and "left-wing elitism" makes you wonder about the mental calibre of some of you Proudly American Republican types out there. Now this lightweight article claims that Europe has a monopoly on the glorification of war, and many of you seem to accept it. Hello! Do you remember your own Civil War? The celebrations of American feats of arms in the world wars? How about Korea and Vietnam? The Middle East? The fact is that Obama resonates with the European antipathy for militarism, and they're not alone in that revulsion against the Wild West attitudes of the Neo-Con clique. A change of US focus towards diplomacy would be welcome around the world.

At least Bubblehead can express his views with consistency and logic, but even s/he seems to forget that the admirable US Constitution is based on that of Revolutionary France, and that it was those sentiments that spawned Napoleon.

I love the branding of anybody who disagrees with your puerile attitudes as "elitist". Elites are well educated, critical and thoughtful people who worked hard for their accomplishments, which necessarily puts them in a minority in any society. This is especially true in the case of nations which spend more on war than education. Maybe this is why you have such a visible inferiority complex about both Europe and Senator Obama?

OMG. "American thinker"? Seriously?

Is there any actual "thought" in this article? To me, it seems it is just a dangerous brew of hateful clichés, complete ignorance and bitter polemics, on top of rabid anti-intellectualism. When that's all American "thinkers" have to offer, America is lost. Big time.

Is Europe's history a history of bloodshed? Of course it is. Damn are you smart. I guess you've listened to history class in elementary school, at least now and then.

Funny thing is, the fact a symbol of militarism has been turned into a symbol for the city's gay movement should have made you think. Does that mean anything? Maybe, that times have changed? That people here are well aware of their past, resulting in a tongue-in-cheek, ironizing dealing with this symbol? The author even discovered this bit -- but the message hit the hollow wood the author's head seems to resemble.

Hint: Most European countries are united today in a peaceful alliance, the European Union, which values freedom, democracy and human rights. The EU members have not started any war, or engaged in any imperialism since the end of WW2. What's your conclusion? Oh, I forgot, I cannot expect any independent "thought". That would overextend the mental capacities of someone thinking in terms of "cheese eating surrender monkeys" and "freedom fries".

And then, the author seems completely unaware what "socialism" actually is. His usage of the word resembles the educational level of a 4-year-old who uses it synonymously to the term "asshole". But hey, who needs differentiation between such diametrically opposed political concepts as "communism", "socialism", "social democracy" or "social liberalism"? First, such a differentiation would not be helpful when the goal is starting a childish smear campaign against a liberal candidate. And second, differentiation is too intellectual, it requires display of education, and we cannot afford this in America today, where people actually consider education a reason not to vote for an "elitist" candidate. Hail idiocracy!

Just for fun, let's start a little polemic, algebraic signs reversed:

While Europe has learnt from history, now is a continent of peace and freedom, America is the true heir of all the ugly ideas that were so vivid in Europe in the 19th, up to the mid 20th century: Rabid nationalism including hateful smears against other peoples (i.e. the French), militarism based on a sick nationalism, which serves as "opium for the masses" to make them fight and die for the interests of their leaders. Complete lack of education in the masses, which leads them even to believe silly lies such as a Saddam-9/11 connection or the fairy tale of WMD in Iraq. Like in Europe's Dark Ages, systematic torture has become policy of the US again. America spits in the face of every enlightened person, violates the most basic values of the Western civilization, by extralegally imprisoning people and denying them fair trials, much like the Gestapo and NKWD did before. The American people swallows propaganda lies by a fearmongering government, to a degree even Joseph Goebbles would have been proud. And the American public does not correct any of this, because it is completely disfunctional -- either they are ideological hacks in the pockets of big business, such as FOX News, or they meet a completely dumbed-down mob that was long ago made incapable of distinguishing between news and entertainment.

America under Bush is the true heir of everything, of all the problems that made Europe a battlefield in the past, while Europe has learnt from its mistakes.

But you cannot expect too much from a country that stands for slavery, cannon-boat diplomacy, Jim Crow laws and the support of bloody dictatorships abroad, as long as their played to American rules.

That's be all. Thanks for reading.

And I really hope you have the balls of allowing this comment to be posted. Or is "freedom of speech" just a value you guys only pay lip service to?

If there was ever a country built from blood, blood, blood it is the USA. Endless hypocricy from the land of the free.. give us a break. We are all dumber for having read this article.

The writer of this pretentious article has no clue about Europe, his views are a mix of prejudice and some google research on European history to find some arguments that suit him.

And by the way: The wars and massacres he mentioned happened before America was colonized. Todays Americans are the descendants of Europeans of that time just like todays Europeans are so we have no business pointing the finger at anyone. We actually have more blood on our hands because we killed of the real native Americans in addition to all the previous massacres our ancestors did in Europe.

wow.

looks like we find serious mutal pregedices between "the US" and "europe".
Which is quite astonishing as we all surf the same web, watch the same movies (translations dont make them better, by the way) and so on and so on.
I find it humoring how everyone tries to find great differences between countrys, reminds me of how everyone was searching for diferences between races at the beginning of the 20th century.
After all what does the American way of life come from ?
What does influence the european lifestyle of today most ?
And why do we speak the same language ?
xactly because the differneces between the average US citizen and the average member of the european union is smaller than de differnece between a guy from Texas and one from NY.

Now lets talk about some of the things said that made my skin crawl:

"As an true American, I am deeply insulted by Obama's rhetoric today in Berlin. Not only did he attack his own country and point out our failings, he also went out of his line of duty by actually apologizing for "American mistakes" around the world."

with all due respect, but how du you expect your country to find the "true" "best" "most humane" way of acting if not through the constant critical overfiew from its citizen - no matter weather they are president or hab worker ?
EVERYONE should have the right to express his/her oppinion that "we did wrong", where else should free speach be ?
Of course Obama must never apologize IN THE NAME of the USA before he actually was elected to represent it, but that he didnt do , did he ?
Of course you have every right to disagree with him and clarify you would not want someone who thinks so POTUS, and im hopeful you actually meant that all along, but PLEASE, from someone whos ancestors did blindly follow their "great leader" who brought glory apond their "beloved country".... mind the difference !

having written that i go back to that unkind windows server i work on and hope my tired mind did not do TO many spelling mistakes.

Victor, you are not a true American! True Americans are not as self-righteous as you are here. True Americans stand for freedom (including freedom of speech) and justice [which makes a whole lot of the "men in charge" un-true Americans because all they do is work for their own pockets and try to oppress people who oppose such actions]. Also: I didn't see any "free brats and beer provided by Obama's campaign" the signs said 2,50 and 3,00...?! - Besides that, what is this "your faults are bigger than mine" - that never got anybody anywhere. That is exactly the WRONG ATTITUDE to bring peace to this world. Obama, whether he will be president or not, is doing the right thing - besides, he is entitled to his opinion (and so are you). He just happens to have a larger audience in front of him than you - are you jealeous? Tough. If you don't like what he stands for: go out, get politically active and quit blowing of self-righteous steam.

Sim, nicely put (if a little lengthy). - On the other hand: maybe James is just such a smart guy and he knew that only by putting out such a hateful, biased, smeary piece, he would inspire all of us to voice our opinions and knowledge. Now he can read and learn.... (NOT!)

THANK YOU CASSANDRA!!!! Marry Me!

A small reply @Victor:

Victor, I understand you are a proud American. And you have reason to be proud, your country achieved many great things in history.

But there are also bad sides about your country. And it seems to me you are, without bad intentions, displaying some of them. Maybe it helps you to understand better what I mean, when I explain it to you, like a friend to a friend.

One of our common shared values on both sides of the ocean is the ideal of democracy. A basic requirement of democracy is control of the government by the people. That means it is the first duty of a citizen of a democratic republic to criticize their leaders. To watch out and punish any transgression committed by the government. If the people does not do that, freedom will fail.

Nationalism may stand in the way of that, when it is too extreme: May the leader just wrap a horrible mistake, a violation of Constitution and human rights, an unjust war in the flag, and people will swallow it, because they think it's their patriotic duty. That is the dangerous, dark side of nationalism.

Europe has made horrible experiences with such a kind of nationalism. And most Europeans have learnt from these past mistakes and now are highly suspicious towards a nationalism that incapacitates the people to fulfill their duties as democratic citizens, to question their leaders. That is why they dislike George Bush and the Republicans, because they remind them of their own dark past: A chauvinistic nationalism that sells horrible crimes to its people by wrapping it in the flag.

You say Europe should be grateful for America's help? I can assure you, we Europeans are. But don't confuse gratefulness with unconditional submission to your leaders. We have not been saved from authoritarian dictatorship, just to shut up and obey to what some government says, even when we disagree. You certainly have not brought us democracy and freedom for that purpose. You brought us democracy and freedom for that we can decide our fate. For that our peoples watch out our leaders do not make mistakes.

Is it an expression of respect, democracy and freedom when you, as Bush, demand us to shut up and obey? Even, when we, as your friends, believe your are committing a severe mistake?

American nationalism is vivid, much more than in Europe. And it occassionally is most chauvinistic. It causes you to forget you are just one nation among others, not better or worse than other people. We European peoples forgot that as well, in our past. And the result was just the bloodshed you had to save us from. We are thankful. But we don't owe you anything. Don't you forget that. You are our partner, not our master. And partners don't insult each other, or treat each other as vassalls, as the Republicans, blinded by chauvinism, do.

That is why I support Obama. Unlike Bush or McCain, he is a true friend of Europe, and a true friend of democracy, freedom and equality. He is the embodiment of all we love about America, the embodiment of the spirit which sacrificed a lot to liberate us from war and authoritarianism, the America which stands for freedom and democracy, not petty chauvinism, hatred and prejudices.

Victor, my friend, I hope you understand this is not a pissing contest about "who has the bigger guilt" or "who is the master". Such a mindset is not compatible with the values you claim America stands for.

You Americans are a great people. But don't you forget you have your quirks and mistakes too. You are no Gods, and you are not better than other peoples on this planet. You are capable of goodness, and living up to your values. Yes you can!

If Obama's trip overseas has not convinced his supporters that he is an elitist, arrogant, and self centered empty shell, I pity them.

I long for a president who is highly educated, articulate, and open to new ideas in 2008 rather than the tired, old, failing ideas of McCain, Bush, and others who've been around Washington for years. I look forward to a president who reaches out to the world ... Russia, China, Iraq, Iran, Africa, South America, Cuba ... and yes, Europeans. I am tired of being seen as a backward nation throughout the world. I want to be part of a nation that leads by joining with the rest of the world to solve our problems and to move forward. I am weary of hearing the kind of elitism and narrowness found in the one who posted this article and the negativity and nay-saying. Obama's Berlin speech was a really fine speech. I don't hear anything remotely similar from McCain or his allies at FOX.

well put, Sim! could not think of anything to add! brilliant and polite discussion from a voice of reason and kindness.

Thor- the author uses the term "tens of millions" in reference not only to the Napoleonic Wars, but also the "Prussian victory over Napoleon at Waterloo (with Lord Wellington playing a minor role), plus the Franco-Prussian War of 1870, and of course World War I." World War I had 19M deaths alone. Just a gentle correction...

I disagree with your take on Obama in Berlin. You can read my analysis here. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jerry-weissman/what-barack-did-say-in-be_b_115002.html

I love the USA. It's my home.
I love what it stands for, though not necesarily what it is at this point in time, nor some of it's actions, either recently or over it's relatively short history. If I have to assume that my country is without fault to be "proud" then I guess I'm not.
I was raised on the edge of a swamp, and never went to college, and I'm not a millionaire. I served in the military for 10 years, so am not a pacifist or an elitist.
I am a registered Republican.
I have travelled far and wide over the last 25 years, and the worst thing I've seen, is the "Ugly American"; those that assume everyone else is wrong, and that they should be catered to (hows that for "elitist"). I've always been treated with respect, as long as I gave respect, and in most places with true kindness.
I AM PROUD of the sentiments expressed by Senator Obama in Berlin. How is it detrimental to anyone if the precepts of the republic of the USA is extended beyond the present 50 states (remember it started out as 13), to the rest of the world?
The USA was found on a policy of free exchange of ideas and compromise. In this forum, I have to give KUDOS to Sim, as his/her statements closely echo my own viewpoints. It is sad that Sim is not from "my" side of the "pond".....or is it?

Is this a joke? It looks like complete propaganda.

Obama,gay newspaper, superficial American tourists,
Napoleon's imperial invasions,Obama,Adolf Hitler,
Soviet National Anthem,Pol Pot,obama,Saddam.

Hello GDoC63!

It is always nice to meet people who are open for exchange, instead of being blinded by prejudices and self-righteousness. I have met many people from America, most of them are nice and some of them have become my friends. Traveling, especially abroad, is a great way to meet new people, to learn, to question the own national prejudices and preconceptions one inevitably grows up with. So is studying foreign languages. Unfortunately, way too many Americans seem too much focused on themselves, they are hardly ever confronted with people from other nations, or even entering a whole new world by studying a foreign language.

You are right, I do not live on your side of the pond. To be exact, I live in Berlin, Germany and saw Obama's inspiring speech yesterday.

Let me say again that I do love America. I have visited the Unites States four years ago, and I am planning on doing so again. Most people are nice and hospitable, and I admire the imperturbable American optimism, the confidence that when there is a problem, we will solve it eventually. This is a nice contrast to the all too pessimistic, always complaining Germans over here.

But needless to say, you, as much as we do, have your fair share of horrible people. Maybe it's not always their fault they are as they are, often they just grew up without ever having to question their comfortable prejudices, be it due to education, experience or self-reflection. Much like the chap who wrote this article. God bless them, they don't know what they are doing.

But unfortunately, I got the impression these people have dominated American politics in the past eight years. At least, the Bush regime has addressed and fueled the ugliest, basest instincts in the least enlightened part of the population, in order to win support and votes.

As I already mentioned, one of these aspects is the ugly side of American nationalism. When it goes beyond pride in your values, but becomes the mythical feeling you are the masters of the world, you are better than all other people, American lives are worth more than the lives of other human beings, in one word -- you are the "good guys".

The moment you are so convinced you are good, without ever questioning it again, everything you do becomes justified. You don't ask anymore if your actions are just -- you are good, so your actions must be too. So naturally, anybody opposing them must be evil.

This myth is understandable in America. America was founded as a counterpoint to tyrannic Europe in the 18th century. For more than a century, your country was the most democratic and free on this globe. People admired you. You were a weak nation, militarily, no match for the old European powers. You rightfully condemned their militarism, power plays and excesses by the state. You hated their self-righteous militarism and arrogance of power.

Since WW2 at least, this has changed. America today is the most powerful nation on the planet, regarding military. America is spending as much on its forces, as the rest of the world combined. You have become the country that starts wars, the country that occupies other countries (for good or bad aside), the country that uses force to subjugate others.

Yet your infallible perception of being the noble "good guy" still persists, although it was based on just the opposite of what you are today. Your myth endures and keeps you from questioning whether some of your actions may be wrong, because you are "good" per definitionem.

It's always the same: The myth of the own goodness is born, when you are David against Goliath, and you win against the tyranny evil of superior enemies. But when you yourself have become Goliath, but still keep the myth in mind you are David, you act like a brute, like an elephant in a tableware shop.

Just like the chap who wrote this pathetic article never questions the US -- all that's left to him is once again ruminating the old tale of evil Nazi Germany. And this even in the context of a speech by a BLACK man, who talks about "tearing down the walls between races, religions and peoples" -- and who then gets huge applause by a people which, only 70 years ago, paid similar applause to leaders who proposed the exact opposite. That it couldn't be any more inappropriate to draw this analogy just underlines how far the author has gone into the la-la-land of his own, self-anointing delusions.

America has to face it: Not a Europe with a slightly larger welfare state (which has nothing to do whatsoever with "socialism") has similarities with old European imperialism. Europe is united in the EU, where no member is master over the other, where each member, no matter how large or small has the same voice, where everybody accepts each other as equal.

No, America today under Bush is the one country that resembles 19th century European imperialism. Bush accepts no treaty with other nations, he voluntarily breaks them. Bush does not accept any authority above him, no matter if ICC or UN. Bush does not respect the Constitution either, even ignores Supreme Court decisions. Neocons and theocons, who have taken the once GOP want a "New American Century", a new Roman Empire, instead of global cooperation. Little George I is a king. And he invades militarily defenseless countries to pillage their natural resources.

And the uneducated, unexperienced masses, who have never met a foreigner, never learnt a foreign language, and often have nothing left in their lives but the comforting myth America is better than everyone else, support him in all these actions. Poor, blinded fools. Had any one of them ever read a book about European history, German history in particular, and also the balls to critically examine their own country, look into a mirror, they wouldn't cheer anymore.

But it is obvious that besides this "Old America", the ugly, chauvinistic America that is proud on their own lack of education, and proud of the myths that make them tools for the powerful, there is the "New America".

A New America that is fed up with Bush's lies, the Republicans' constant schtick of playing out one part of the people against the other, by villifying proud Americans as "terrorist supporters", "appeasers", "elitists", "anti-Americans". A New America that remembers the highest values of the country are a critical mind questioning the leaders, questioning the state, and critical examination of the own actions. There couldn't be anything more American than saying "no" to a wrong war, to a wrong policy, to an increasingly tyrannic state.

This new America has gone through a very hard time in the past eight years. But it will rise again. It will be heard again. Obama is the personification of this New America.

Yes, today, America is hated as never before. Even closest allies haven given up on America. That is the heritage of Bush's Old America.

But when the day has come the New America will determine the fate of the American people once again, it will be the day when the whole world once again looks at America full of admiration!

James Lewis, I think the strong reaction to your weak column speaks volumes. It also makes me much more optimistic about the future of America than I was before. Sim's contribution and sentiments are particularly welcome as a balanced antidote to the sort of poisonous drivel we've all become accustomed to in this space. Please read and you may learn something valuable!

The Obamamaniac youth of today are an embarrassment to our nation. You are so self-absorbed, spoiled, and ignorant that you don't even stop to think about how idiotic it is for you to loathe your own country. America has provided you with the blessings freedom, security, safety, prosperity, opportunity like nowhere on earth, in the history of the planet.

You are a disgrace, and an OBAMAnation to every drop of blood that has been shed to protect us from marauders, and protect the our Constitution.

I can see how you connect with Obama's, considering his contempt for America, which is evident in every speech. He flew all the way to Germany to tell them their history (minus crediting America for rebuilding it after WWII), and then diss America--my beloved homeland, the nation he wants to lead. And then he snubbed the wounded soldiers in our military hospital, because it did not provide for him a photo op--what a self-absorded, jerk...just like his fans.

You Obama supports are simply moronic.

Redpeach, people like you are EXACTLY why this country needs the younger generation to take charge and elect new leaders; trying to learn from past mistakes is not a shameful thing - repeating past mistakes is a shameful thing. Treading on freedom and justice is a shameful thing; being ignorant about the mistakes and the tresspasses that politicians perform daily - that is a shameful thing. The desire to regain a free and respected America is not a shameful thing. "America" has not provided your so-called blessings - right-minded, fair and strong people have seen to it that these values are maintained as much as possible.
The disgrace of America are narrow-minded, stubborn people who fail to accept that even a great nation or country can make mistakes and live through it. Perpetuating mistakes does not turm them into "the right thing to do".

...and he did credit America with rebuilding it (or did you miss the part about the Marshall Plan in his speech?!). Guess you are not much at listening... doesn't surprise me.

The narcissistic American self-absorbedness really knows no limits.

YOU did not rebuild Germany after WW2. The Germans did that on their own, with hard work. Thanks to this hard work and sweat spent by Germans, West-Germany soon became the 3rd largest economy on this planet again. Germans worked for this goal and achieved it, Germans created a new political order and a Constitution, Germans organized the West-German society and economy. Not Americans.

While it's true America protected West-Germany from the Soviet threat and gave a (really small, actually) starting capitalization (the Marshall Plan funding, which btw was just a credit that was repaid until 1970), America did nothing whatsoever to "rebuild" Germany.

It's amazing how few many Americans seem to know of history.