Bush's Mission Accomplished

The GOP/RNC have fallen prey to the disease - the cancer - of political correctness and are saying that they will not conduct themselves as the demonstrative sycophants of the Soros Clan that are vile, evil and pathetic. And, yes, that is indeed to their detriment, sadly so stated.

Having said that, they have in essence given up the fight in the name of playing nice-nice. Ask any Grunt - myself included - that you do not win a battle or a war by playing nice-nice with the enemy and the Leftinistra, the armies of the socialist liberal, are indeed the enemy.

Obama is the enemy since he has declared that he wants a Civilian National Security Force on an equal par with the United States Military.

"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded."

This cannot go unchallenged. I didn't serve this Nation to turn it over to the likes of the Sith Lord Obama.

I was there that day. Perhaps lost in most of this debate is the simple but important fact that the Commander-In-Chief took the time to personally recognize and thank the men and women of ABRAHAM LINCOLN who had just spent nearly 10 months answering the call of duty. Deployments are usually 6 months, and LINCOLN had been on her way home when she was turned around and extended for OIF. "Mission Accomplished" exactly describes the work of ABRAHAM LINCOLN and her entire Strike Group that year. Having the Commander-in-Chief say thanks in person was a huge morale booster for some tired Sailors on that ship, as well as a morale booster for the military as a whole.
It is not my place to debate "Mission Accomplished" as it pertains to the greater Iraq War...but I for one felt very proud and very humbled (and still do) that my President took the time to recognize a job well done. Thank you, Mr. President. I appreciated it.

I was a moderate for years before the left's belligerent tirade began back in 04........day after day of horrible comments, and at times down right lies, the media kicked the Bush administration in the junk on a daily basis..........now I will never, ever vote for anything coming from the liberal left or the Democrats for that matter. It makes me ill to think that people in this country could agree with the treatment of a sitting president that way........at lest he did his job for better or for worst and didn't hang around the White House humping the help.

Based only upon who his enemies are, Bush will go down as one of our better if not great Presidents. In our history the MSM has never gotten it right. Nor have the fanatics of any stripe. The extent of the lies and propaganda excesses that characterize the anti Bush filth they spew guarantees they will be regarded with contempt. Future generations will either wonder how they could be that destructively wrong or recognize them as the treacherous traitors they are.

Many of us conservatives, for years, have questioned Mr. Bush's decision to abandon the narrative of his administration to the left; much to his detriment, and ours. Another point that needs to be made is that this decision left his supporters demoralized and dispirited. Only talk radio and cites such at AT carried his water, while the left had 24/7 unrelentless MSM criticism. I've never understood this policy and have tried to get answers. Be it his "new tone", or his noblesse oblige posture, while stoic, presidential, and Christian, that perhaps worked in past generations, clearly didn't in this time of rabid partisanship. Hence, it was a disaster politicaly. The few times Mr. Bush did push back, the left squealed like a stuck pig. You would have thought, Mr. Bush, et al would have gotten the message, that fighting back works, especially when you're right. But then again, he chose the likes of a Scott McClellen as his spokesperson. Enough said.

Zbigniew.Mazurak...what kind of name is that?

Here we go again Zb, wading into things you know almost nothing about....

You are right that the S-3 is not a fighter, but the press always reports it as such. Press reports and articles on the web are filled with inaccuracies, as you and I have previously discussed. But you are also wrong to say it's an anti-submarine platform. It lost that capability a long, long time ago. It was used for surface search and air-to-air refueling on that deployment, and has rarely been used in any other capacity since the late 90's. If you had ever seen an S-3, instead of just checking a website, you'd know that the MAD boom and other sub-hunting gear are long gone. I'm not criticizing you for not knowing any better, most people don't. But most people are smart enough not to talk about things they don't know well.

As for W.'s speech, I was on that deployment with SaltyDog. My squadron flew our Super Tomcats off the day before to make room on the flight deck. I watched from a TV set like most everyone else, but several of my very best friends were there, including the pilot who flew Navy One aboard. What you might not know is that the President wanted to come aboard in one of our Tomcats, the definitive fighter, because he was a fighter-guy and wanted to check it out. VF-31 certainly wanted to fly him. I can't begin to tell you how important the first arrested landing for a President was to us. And I can't tell you how disappointed we all were when the Secret Service insisted that the President fly with an agent. The only jet with more than 2 seats was the Viking, so it was chosen.

It turned out to be a great choice, because if he had flown in the Tomcat, he would have ridden in the back. In the right front seat of the Viking, he was able to take the controls, execute a rendezvous with his lead, and fly formation all the way out to the ship. Your petty observation that he was not a carrier-based pilot is absurd. Every Naval Aviator has a very real connection with W. He IS a pilot. A rusty one to be sure, but he is one of us. He took the controls and flew himself out there as one of our wingmen. It was a great look at who he was at heart, and a very cool thing to do as our President.

The article that Paul wrote struck a very deep chord with me. Nothing has made me sadder and less proud of the liberals in this country than when they started tearing down that event. The simple fact is that the mission remains accomplished. Iraq is no longer a threat to any of her neighbors, and Hussein will never turn his army on his own people again. President Bush was very careful to note in his speech that there was still much work to be done, so trying to make fun of the banner behind him while ignoring his message... well, its just childish. And let me just say, running this country is for grown-ups.

One last W. anecdote: My squadron was asked to do the opening fly-by for the Saturday race before the Daytona 500 that next year. Sunday, the aircrews were in their flight suits, sitting on the pit wall, watching the opening ceremonies. President Bush was there to start the 500 and while on stage, he caught a glimpse of the very distinctive Felix the Cat patch on one of their flight suits. He excused himself and walked down to the guys. After meeting them all, he sat down on the pit wall and explained to them that he loved that trip to ABE, but he was disappointed that he had missed meeting the Tomcat guys. He asked how the deployment was for them. He told them he loved flying out there, and expressed his respect for what they did with those aircraft on that ship. They shot the breeze until the various handlers reminded them that millions of people were waiting and watching. It was a very genuine moment with a very genuine guy.

I will always be proud to have been part of that deployment, and I will always be thankful that the President took the time to come out and pay his respects in person. Liberals make themselves look small and un-American when they criticize that particular evolution. It was a great moment for the Navy. It was a great moment for the country.

Robert

DaveC, Mr. Mazurak is Polish (click on his name and you will be taken to his blog).

He does seem to be sadly misinformed, but highly opinionated. One simple example is this link http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/s-3-strike.htm to a description of the Strike Viking. It is a"fighter" jet in much the same way John McCain A-4 was a "fighter" jet, though in Navy parlance it was an "attack" jet. The pilots of a carrier air wing do not denigrate the job of a Viking pilot.

I, too, was moderate before the left turned finatically against our President and our Country. Now, I would be willing to fight a war to get the left out of our political system, entirely! The left has turned into our enemy. Real Democrats are taking over the Republican Party, as they have nowhere else to go. Republicans are just letting them, because (I guess)most Republicans hesitate to fight their own country (not realizing Soros IS the new Communist Left working in THIS Country). Either we will wake up as a Nation and boot these idiots out of Congress in November, or we are doomed to another Cival war - this time to rid our OWN Nation of Communism/Marxism - whatever you want to call COMPLETE GOVERNMENT CONTROL.
They have also infiltrated out State Department and many other Bureacracies, and these people need to be identified and relieved of their duties. Observe the Joe Wilson/Valerie Plame/Richard Armatige fiasco for details on why.
If we don't BEGIN to fix this in November, I truly fear for my Country.

Mr. Mazurak,

I have read your lengthy comments on alot of articles and I have a few questions:

1: Do you have a life? Who has time to write such long critques of so many articles?
2: What are your qualifications to make the statements of FACT that you continually make?
3:If indeed you are so knowledgeable and educated, why don't you write some articles and let others take pot shots at you?

I have no idea whether you really "know your stuff" but the length and tone of your responses defeats your purpose in several cases.

Just my opinion

What really frosts the noogies of the cringing cowardly left is the reality that 'W' is a 'Right Stuff' fighter jock...as is John Mccain. Fighter pilots are famous for tipping a few adult beverages at 'Panchos' on occasion. They live to fly fast jets. Wouldn't you if you could? It's a proud elite international fraternity of sky warriors going back to Eddie Rickenbacker...hence W's jolly belly bump with an Air Force Academy grad, and his high fiving and hugging of the dedicated young crew of the Abe Lincoln returning home from a six month deployment in a war zone. The majority of the military love 'W' and he loves them. This was no cheesy photo op, it was a sincere 'well done' from their Commander in Chief, who knew full well the insulting, snarky MSM spin that would ensue.
They don't give doofus village idiots the keys to those supersonic beasts. Those golden wings are hard earned on merit by disciplined, intelligent, in shape athletes...male, female, black, white, rich or poor. It's a major, serious exclusive life accomplishment attainable by very few...as is an MBA from Harvard Business School or a diploma from Annapolis. Social pedigree is meaningless. An Aussie blogger nailed it when he said..."A philosophy degree is Top Gun for nerds."
Whiny progressive campus theorists, ruminating in their Ivy League think tanks, issuing learned decrees on our choice for a PC breakfast or solar powered lawn mowers, are too medicated on Paxil to even safely drive their hybrid Volvos...yet these pseudo-intellectual castrati pin heads are the official political punditry of the Pravda of the DNC...the MSM.
Thank you for a great article on a matter that should NEVER be dropped. Keep this education ongoing before AT is shut down by Nanski Pelosovich's 'Fairness Doctrine' and BHO's Civilian Security Forces confiscates all our hard drives for the common good of the collective.

All anyone with an ounce of grey matter needs to do to understand the importance of the Iraq war is to look at the map of the middle east. With Iraq secure(almost as of this date) "Bush' s War" has positioned the US smack dab in the middle of the enemy camp,that is , the whole of the middle east. With Iraq as a base and rid of the Muslim extremists the US can influence the entire middle east. No other president has ever made such a bold strategic move in time of war. Historians who are not subservient to the left will acknowledge the genius of this move in the future. Some already have done so. Bush's policy of not dignifying his critics rants has set the stage for future generations to marvel at this bold move once the understanding sinks in of the future victories Iraq will make possible.

I am old enough to remember the Truman presidency; Truman was hated by most at the time; but now in the light of 50+ years of history, he is hailed as one of the greatest presidents. His policies, hated at the time laid the base for the future defeat of the Soviet Union, but not many at the time could grasp the strategic importance of his polices.

Mr. Kengor: this is a good post, with a noble intent, but you inadvertantly perpetrate several myths by the Anti-American/Pro-Jihad Democratic Traitor Leftists and MSM in this country, by not taking the time to tell the Truth about the "Mission Accomplished" media lies, and to correct the record.

saltydog and Robert were aboard the ship, maybe they can confirm?

The "Mission Accomplished" banner, was, made by the White House, but it was made so, by specific Request of the USS Abraham Lincoln, ad the link to the Article below states, emphatically.

Additionally, the Banner was NOT directly placed behind President Bush, to accentuate it; it was placed on the Carrier's Island, and it just looked that way, because of camera angles.

Finally, President Bush, if you go back and read his speech, NEVER said "Mission Accomplished" or the War was "won" in Iraq; in fact, he said the exact OPPOSITE; that there was a long road ahead.

All of these myths have been created, because the Left lives in a Fantasyland, where the truth and facts do not matter; and hate, and Anti-Americanism rule the day!

The TRUE story about what happenend with the "Mission Accomplished" Banner, and one never talked about by the MSM:

http://gunnygspot.blogspot.com/2007/06/mission-accomplished-rest-of-story_7255.html

The individual responsible for the Banner, and the article above:

http://www.lakewalesnews.com/articles/2003/04/03/news/military/61.txt

Proof that he was in fact, aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, and is who he says he is:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NQS/is_5_66/ai_107836654

Another posting of the same email:

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.listall&friendid=58758671

From the President's Speech:

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you all very much. Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. (Applause.) And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country.

(All True, by the way)

...

We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We're bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We're pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime, who will be held to account for their crimes. We've begun the search for hidden chemical and biological weapons and already know of hundreds of sites that will be investigated. We're helping to rebuild Iraq, where the dictator built palaces for himself, instead of hospitals and schools. And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by, and for the Iraqi people. (Applause.)

The transition from dictatorship to democracy will take time, but it is worth every effort. Our coalition will stay until our work is done. Then we will leave, and we will leave behind a free Iraq.

(more ALL true!)

Never once did he say "Mission Accomplished" as the Deluded Left thinks and repeats ad naseum.

Never once did he say "The War is over"; as the delusional Left says he said, all the time.

He makes it clear, their is along road ahead, this was one phase, that ended in a victory, and we're to the long difficult next phase.

End of story!

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/05/20030501-15.html

ZM,

Don't say you are sorry when you aren't and shouldn't be! That is one thing that need to be eliminated from our discourse......

One of the things that is site, above all, should support and does...we are all entitled to our opinion and our say.

My problem is the length of your responses and in some cases, nitpicking. I was only suggesting that if your ideas and knowledge is that strong...submit articles!!!! I am sure that they would be accepted.

Can we be brilliantly sardonic and humorously dismissive in regard to the American Left without name-calling?
They start with name-calling and descend to lies and character assassination. Lets stay above them.

When we entered this flap, virtually the entire free world's leaders and their intelligence sources, our Dems included, believed that Saddam/Iraq was embarked upon a broad WMD program ... including nuclear. Indeed, he had employed chem WMD in the past. The world feared that HE HAD WMD! Today many of us believe that evidence of chem WMD and that"quantities" of yellowcake were found in and recovered from Iraq.

Today, we seem ready to ignore the fact that Mr Bush achieved one of his Iraq goals: We are no longer concerned with Iraqi acquisition of and use of WMD ... a Repub aim. But, many Dems have very actively tried to inhibit the US in attempts at achieving a liberal, humanitarian goal: The reconstruction of an Iraq with a representative government. The Repubs say: We broke it, we must fix it. The Dems say: The Iraqis are the problem ... let them settle it without threat to our "troops." Is this a reversal of traditional liberal concepts of "responsibility" for the "innocents?"

Oddly enough, Mr Bush would have been ahead, today, had he settled merely for elimination of the Iraq WMD "threat" (plus terrorist support) and let the Iraqis recover on their own. And, the cause of this is the fact that several groups in Iraq, all Muslim, first refused "peaceful" negotiation as THE means of settling THEIR conflict(?) Mr Bush erroneously believed that the Iraqis could quickly and peacefully agree on a government after Saddam was deposed. Mr Bush made our commitment as a liberal, humanitarian gesture ... and the Dems used this misjudgment to condemn the entire operation.

As for "Mission Accomplished," The Dems very vocal, internationally announced declamations further encouraged the ferocity and turmoil, which contributed to OUR casualties. It is sad irony that their "patriotism" contributed to OUR casualties, which, in turn prompted more "patriotism" ... and more casualties ... and patently reiterated and reinforced our lack of resolve ... as the world still turns and watches ... many foreign states with glee ... as our internal cohesion disintegrates. [patriot = One who loves his country AND ZEALOUSLY SUPPORTS ITS AUTHORITY AND INTERESTS (emphasis, mine). Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. 1936.] How times have changed! And, that is why they are SOOOO tender on "patriotism."

Great post --- here in Britain, Dubya is generally seen as either a comical buffoon or a dangerous war-mongering lunatic. The above article and its well-informed comments should be required reading for all the trendy Leftist poseurs in my country. Unfortunately, they're the ones who are in the positions of greatest influence: the government benches boast a motley crew of ex-Communists and student radicals. Worse still, the single most influential shaper of opinion in Britain, the BBC, is stuffed full of cultural Marxists --- yet frustratingly is still regarded as being impartial. And sadly, people do actually believe its relentless anti-Iraq, anti-US, anti-Israel agitprop. Impartial my arse.

I just wish Mr Bush would pledge himself to regime-change for the UK. Your Marines could fight alongside ours and accomplish what Guy Fawkes failed to do. I'm sure the Queen's sick enough of the present bunch of incompetents to give him a quiet thumbs-up.

Roll on, Operation Limey Freedom...

Paul, what a great idea! It's been a lot of years since I flew fighters, but I could still drive a fuel truck or hang ordnance on the wings for bombing runs on Parliament and BBC Studios. There will be free Guinness after we win, right?

When the Lincoln was dispatched to the Gulf, her CO was given orders. The carrying out of those orders was his, and by extension the Lincoln's, mission.
Only someone without the benefit of military experience or perspective could construe the "Mission Accomplished" banner as anything other than an announcement of the crew's pride in having successfully carried out their orders, of having accomplished their mission.

"There will be free Guinness after we win, right?"

Depends how grateful the Irish are.

...Or how worried.

As for bombing the BBC, I'm hoping that their coverage of the next Hezbollah onslaught will be so outrageously anti-Israel that the IDF will declare Broadcasting House a primary military objective, and do us all a favour.

At least we wouldn't be forced to pay the bloody licence fee any more...

In my life, I have found that people who don't change their opinions on a whim are usually referred to as stubborn. Liberals on the other hand, can change their positions daily and are referred to as thoughtful or some other adjective one would consider a compliment. Our President is often referred to as stubborn; I don't recall him ever apologizing for the "Mission Accomplished" moment. I like that about him and personally, I think Frank Rich should apologize. His gratitude for living in a country like ours never shows and it somehow makes him seem undeserving; to me at least. Great article, Mr Kengor!

Wow. The article can stand alone but is greatly supported by the testimony of the commenters who were present for the event highlighted. That's fantastic. The only part with which I'd take issue is to say that Bush and his admin assume the fetal position in response to liberal attacks. I think that's a poor description. I liken it more to simply considering the source and not dignifying them with a reply. A good practice for the individual in every day life, but damn near suicidal for a sitting president, especially one whose policies regarding terrorism have panned out far better than his detractors hoped. I find it to be the major failing of his presidency, well beyond any of his other policies with which I might disagree. He hasn't been all I had believed him to be before his initial election, but as far as this war, he makes both Gore and Kerry completely comical as alternatives. So glad enough people felt that way at election time.

It was Clausewitz who said war is politics by other means. Well, if a = b then b = a and that means politics is war by other means. It's something the administration has never understood and to its detriment, and ours on the right. The miscalculation was the these tactics would backfire on the left and the best course of action for the President was to stay above it. A major miscalculation.

The problem is after the same guy gets sand kicked in his face every day at the beach by the same crowd, people stop feeling sorry for the guy after a while and begin to think he's just pathetic. Put another way, if when I walk in the office every morning the guy in the office next to me says "good morning child molester" and I never defend myself, morning after morning, people in the office will eventually begin to believe there must be something there. That's been the sad fate of this administration and its refusal to defend itself.

What worries me is I don't see where the McCain camp gets this is what they're up against. The left (Democrat politicians and media) now understands they can create whatever reality they want with 60% of the country, that it does not backfire.

What Bush ought to do if the reports of a planned draw down on its own merits with the success of the surge are true is do another "Mission Accomplished" type event, continuing theme, and lead troops home from victory, daring the left once again to call it anything but victory. Post surge this President still has the chance to declare victory for this country.

Zbig! Love your postings. I've learned a lot from you. The one thing I learned is many Europeans love America too. I've gleaned a lot of knowledge about my nation from an overseas perspective. We are Europe Jr. all grown up! When I was a political nimrod I used to work with a dam engineer from the Punjab. He loved his new country and I couldn't keep up with him during our cordial lunch time chats. I felt like such a dork (I actually was...truth be told) He ate MY lunch when it came to history and current politics. He was surprised that an American would have these clueless liberal attitudes...considering the exceptional greatness of our nation. He gently chided me and shamed me into learning a thing or three about my native land. Bless you Harjap! You were right!
In my active ranger days I used to encounter a little old Jewish man from Eastern Europe in his rumpled suit and tie at the local deli in the morning. When I walked by him he would politely doff his fedora and sadly look down at the floor. Just like a tired, abused convict...no eye contact or cheerful greetings. I wondered what life was like in his old hometown. His gesture spoke volumes.
I will shut up and listen to anyone who lived under Communism and who points out the subtle symptoms of that creeping plague over here. We desperately need your input, Zbig. Keep posting! In the Papa Bear O'Reilly spirit of keeping it pithy...I find it way too tempting to bloviate on AT. I have to keep telling myself there are real people out there in cyberworld with informed opinions and little time, who may be reading my screed. God forbid the comment is longer than the article!
I am retired, with ample free time to compose these wordy manifestos to you anonymous readers. Sometimes the iron in my blood turns to lead and settles in my inert butt after sitting in my comfy chair for a couple of hours. I try to imagine this is a diet and nutrition site called 'American Thinner' and I go out and take a walk.
To all my unseen friends in the AT Peanut Gallery...keep posting all you wise conservative knuckleheads! God Love Ya'! Good words win ideological wars!

Roll on, Operation Limey Freedom...

Posted by: Paul | July 19, 2008 03:24 PM

Paul, wow, a "Limey" who's not actually rushing hellbent on surrendering to the Jihadis?

Are you sure you're well?

Paul, seriously, are you a Lawyer per chance?

I know its a small chance, but I know of a Lawyer named "Paul" over in the UK??

I've just watched the The Dark Knight and I found it very entertaining and thought-provoking.

I find Batman to be the theatrical personification of President George W. Bush.

Doing great things for the welfare and safety of reluctant, faithless and selfish people.

When it's all said and done with, I think we will be better off in terms of our national interests and security with President Bush's actions against terrorism. Everything else is just dinner conversation. And why get worked up over trivial matters such as his ranking compared to Truman (who cares, we'll be long dead before historians place 'numbers' on the two).

So I say: screw his critics, their motives and personal ambitions! The security of my beloved U S of A comes before all. To sit and listen to a bunch of Leftist malcontents obsessing over a banner unfurled by a couple of proud sailors is, really, a waste of our precious lives. Say what they will about our president, but it's Bush's business as to how he reacts. We should only worry about not voting his critics into power, as it would only reward their truly digusting actions.

Things have gone wrong in the Iraq Campaign, no doubt. Things have gone wrong in every battle, campaign and war America has ever fought. Not since the War Between The States have Americans seen such a concerted effort to spotlight every error, emphasize every misstep, crucify the imperfect. The "Loyal Opposition" gains politically from everything that goes badly.

They decided to deny this Commander-in-Chief legitimacy before he even took office. They denied him nearly all the tools his predecessors had for their wars. Bush is not Lincoln, and does not have the ruthlessness to break Copperheads of their bad habits. This lack of ruthlessness is interpreted by many as weakness.

Some of the things that should have been done weren't because they wanted to make Iraq a reliable client-state in the heart of the Middle East and thought killing them in large numbers would be a bad idea. A lot of the things that should have been done weren't because nobody wanted to take the pain the "Loyal Opposition" would inflict over it, like a colonial-style MacArthurian Proconsul, a U. S. Constabulary occupation force, and de-Baathization.

That poor, poor man. I'm going to go order him a fruit basket. Oh, wait. Never mind. I forgot that he's a lying, thieving sham of a president that has nearly destroyed our country.

I think I'll keep the fruit basket.

I Ran Out of Cheeks Way Before the C-in-C Did

Milbogs commenter Tom W. said two months ago:

Pelosi I understand. She's all about power, and she doesn't care about the country, our troops, or Iraq. One look at that repulsive mug tells you the whole story.

President Bush, however, clearly cares about the country and the troops, so he should have clamped down on this dried-up hag years ago. But he hasn't.

President Bush has failed us. And I say that as a Bush supporter.

He has utterly failed in his duty as commander-in-chief to vigorously and forcefully defend his policies. Instead, he personalized the attacks against him, which he had no right to do.

He chose to "turn the other cheek" and "let history decide." As a result, he allowed an information vacuum to form, which the Democrats filled.

Now, we all know--thanks to Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-PA)--that the Dems never had any intention of surrendering in Iraq. They only said that to get elected.

I suppose President Bush knows this, too, so he chose to never defend himself or to refute the lies told about him, or to criticize Nancy Pelosi for her many seditious and defeatist statements and actions. It was more important to "get along" and be "gentlemanly."

Bush knew that the Dems wouldn't surrender in Iraq, but our enemies don't know that. They've chosen to fight on, costing us thousands of more American lives.

President Bush has allowed this to happen. He has shown no courage or leadership in confronting Pelosi. In fact, he smiles at her in public as if he loves her. And she smiles back.

As angry as I am at Pelosi, I'm even angrier at President Bush.

His refusal to refute the worst allegations against him continues to this day. He said he has no comment about McClellan's book. His former press secretary accuses him of lying us into a war, and he has no comment.

President Bush's refusal to engage in information operations is pathological. He is mentally unbalanced in this area, and I don't say that lightly.

He let us all down. He had no right to personalize the attacks against him. He has a duty as our president to refute the allegations that U.S. foreign policy is based on lies.

His decision to play the long-suffering martyr has negatively impacted our national security.

Can't say it better myself. Bush's failure to punish domestic enemies encourages them to multiply and discourages the otherwise well-disposed.

Carrying his water in a leaky bucket has been demoralizing to the only people left still trying to maintain national will for prosecuting the war.

ZM, your are wrong. If any Americans die during a Sino-American war it will be on the hands of one Slick Willy Clinton and everybody knows that. He is the one that sold our country out to the Chi-coms during his presidency in his effort to get elected to his second term. The Chinese financed his campaign and were paid back with secret technolgy which they woudn't have this day if not for Slick.

Phil Gram was right, there are a lot of whiners in this country. They're all Republicans. Rush Limbaugh - Whiner. Shaun Hannity - Whiner. Bill O'Reilly - whiner and moron. Ya'll need to get a life and quit your annoying habit of making yourselves the ruling-class victims of the supposed MSM. You have your own 100% news station - Fox. Watch it, enjoy your alternate reality while the rest of us try to clean up your mess.

Great post Dale. I cannot confirm who asked for the banner to be made or why, but I will say that I didn't think it meant anything other than the end of our 10 month cruise and the end of Sadam. We were at the end of the longest deployment in 35 years and somewhat pleased with our work. I loved that banner, and so did the troops. As you pointed out, Bush didn't say the war was finished. He just said we had taken down Hussein. All true. It wasn't until much later that I was even aware of the left's attempt to bash Bush with it.

As for you Zb, the reason people stop talking to you is because there is no point in it. You continue to lecture people who are actually experts in their fields without any intent to learn something. The S-3 was designed for ASW, as I said. But it has not been used in that role in a long time. It drops bombs, shoots missiles, partols the ocean surface, and most importantly, provides the organic air refueling to the rest of the air wing at sea. Ironically, it can still drop torpedoes, but it can't find a sub to drop them on. The aircrew conduct diving attacks on ships at sea. It is an attack plane. It even carries the Tomcat's old LANTIRN pod and can fire LMAVs. I wonder if the weblinks have that. Its only been true a year.

Your point about the existing subsurface threat is funny. What are you trying to say? The Navy has decommisioned all but the last S-3 squadron. They'll be done later this year. How will we hunt subs then?!?! The same we have have been for a decade. We don't use the S-3.

Why are you so hung up on this anyway? Because I dared to challenge you? You will need a thicker skin if you are going to be a writer. You've never seen an S-3. I've flown one. I have a guy sitting right next to me as I type this that has 4,000 hours in them. For goodness sake son, your receiver is broken! Your transmitter works just fine though...

Cheers!
Robert

MZ
Sometimes your posts are very thought provoking, and other times, like in this thread, they are extremely malevolent.

In 2) of your earlier post you stated: "There's a difference between what were they primarily designed for, and what they are actually used for." If this argument is true, then the KC-135 Stratotanker is really a passenger plane since it was designed primarily as the 707 passenger plane.

When you deride real experts in their field, as you did Robert Jones, with your rude, "If you were really a Navy pilot, you would have known that", comment, then you derogate all of your other arugments. You are making yourself irrelevant so I think I will no longer spend my time reading your posts.

Oh well. Back to the article:

Mr. Kengor, thanks again for writing a long overdue piece on that day and the Administration's handling of all the nastiness since. I'm not sure how things will play out in November, but I'm pretty sure President Bush feels the office he holds is above rolling around in the muck. I hope history proves him right.

And Zb, there is no point in making other readers wade through all this. I'll try to follow the lead of my President. If you'd like to continue to teach me about aviation, feel free to contact me at: ernest.jones@auab.afcent.af.mil

Cheers!
"Jungle"

CDR E.R. Jones, USN
NALE Director, Al Udeid CAOC

I honestly don't think that the narrative faltering can be laid at the feet of any political operatives.

Let's face it, the next 4 years in Iraq were HARD, HARD years. It took great fortitude to stay with that fight, and the country was very lucky that Dubya was in office and not a democrat as we would be running away still.

I loved the Mission Accomplished and don't feel any need to apologize for it, nor do I feel the need to recriminate the narrative after that.

They could have used every waking moment combating that and it still wouldn't have mattered. In the end, the facts on the ground is the narrative, nothing else could circumvent that.

Paul, wow, a "Limey" who's not actually rushing hellbent on surrendering to the Jihadis?

Are you sure you're well?

Oh, a bit under the weather, but I'll be fine. Unlike the BDS sufferers (though perhaps that should be singular) who keep trolling this blog...

Paul, seriously, are you a Lawyer per chance?

I know its a small chance, but I know of a Lawyer named "Paul" over in the UK??

Oh, everybody over here knows him... ;)

No, I'm not your man, sorry --- I opted for physics, not Law. ...You'd guess as much if you saw my shoes.

So, Jres, don't let the door hit your backside on your way out!

Posted by: Zbigniew Mazurak | July 20, 2008 10:48 AM

Mr. Mazurak: you're a piece of crap, and you have no credibility; my advice to you is to decamp from this board, you've lost whatever shred of credibility you ever had, which was little to none to begin with!

Cmdr Jones, thank you for your service to us and your country, and please be safe over there.

I'll contact you via email, send me your Unit address, and I'll send you all some goodies.

S/F

Dale

My,my,my..... the more I read the arguments on this thread, the more I'm convinced women should run the world. Play nice, guys... there is enough hatred coming from the marxists on the left, we don't need to turn on each other.

But I'm used to the posturing... having spent 6 years in the U.S. Navy. Fighter Pilots are arrogant, but they are taught to be that way. S-3/A-3/P-3 pilots were down to earth, and very funny guys. I married an A-3 aircrewman.

And ZM, I can't tell you if these guys are for real or not, because you are right, the internet is annonymous. However, I can tell you this from a first hand perspective - when you spend many years being hated by enemies from outside, it is very hard to accept that you are equally hated by enemies from within, people who are your fellow citizens. It is a big slap in the face. It is betrayal to the "nth" degree. That whys some of theses posts are defensive. Unfortunately, thanks to P.C., Americans have become hypersensitive. I include myself. I try and keep an open mind on everything. I move way too far to the right after 9/11. Now I consider myself an Independent, leaning towards moderate conservatism.

Paul Kengor has provided George Bush a great service in pointing out that, despite the constant vilification aimed at him, he has made good on every commitment. Mission accomplished indeed! In particular, I enjoyed his reference to the president's answer when a venomous reporter, either David Gregory or someone just like him, asked who his favorite philosopher was. Quick as a hiccough Bush replied Jesus Christ. Nearly everyone chuckled at him for weeks. One respectable newscaster even claimed the president was confusing "theologian" with "philosopher." Never mind. The answer was brilliant. No philosopher has ever had the impact that Christ had in proclaiming that every human being has the same value as every other human being. Recall that Christ lived at a time when slavery was widespread, human life had low value, and tyrants ruled however they wished. The equality of all human beings ultimately gave voice to the Magna Carta, to the Oath of Augsberg, and to our own Declaration of Independence and Constitution. No one should ever laugh at GWB. He is far brighter than his detractors.

Hi Pam. Funny.

*** good natured ribbing follows***

Of course women can run the world. All you have to do is, take over...

And sure fighter pilots are arrogant. But they aren't taught that way, we weed out all the down-to-earth funny guys and send them to A-3's!

*** resume seriousness ***

My wife is ex-Navy too. That's how we met. If not for her level head, I wouldn't have had both a this career and my family. I have special respect for women who can do what you and my wife have done.

Thanks,
Robert

ZM, I know you are a Pole, I was trying to give you perspective from the American point of view why military people feel the way we feel.

And how do you wish to be treated as a foreigner? Like I was treated while living in Spain? Myself and my infant son almost run over on purpose by a speeding car full of Franco sympathizers? Maybe Americans aren't the only ones who are hypersensitive.

And to Robert Jones: And sure fighter pilots are arrogant. But they aren't taught that way, we weed out all the down-to-earth funny guys and send them to A-3's!

*funny*!

Mr. Kengor is ignoring a key part of the story:

7 months after the carrier landing, in the December 2003-January 2004 time frame, David Kay told Congress that there were no new operational Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) to be found in Iraq.

The original rationale for the Iraq War, the one that Colin Powell had sold to the U.N. Security Council and that the Bush Administration had sold to the American people, had collapsed. The "deadliest arsenal of Weapons of Mass Destruction ever devised," as Bush described it in a press conference, did not exist.

Additionally, in the months that followed, Bush was finally forced to admit publicly that Saddam had absolutely nothing to do with planning or even instigating the 9-11 attack on America.

So with the main rationales for the Iraq War in tatters, Bush started trying to devise new rationales for the war: Stand up a democracy. Military bases for use against Iran. A demonstration of our will. On and on.

The collapse of the original public rationale, and the constantly shifting new rationales, is what has proven indefensible.

OK, it looks like we may well have won the Iraq War. What have we won? Are we safe from terrorism now? Can we safely repeal the PATRIOT Act and stop inspecting our shoes at airport checkins now? Can we stop the Orange Alerts?

The losses from Iraq are clear. The benefits, such as they are, of our action in Iraq are much less clear. And they aren't the same benefits as were promised to us at the start of the war.

Pam L,
I love your perspective on how those of us in the military are sensitive to how we are perceived by our fellow citizens. We've had some of those discussions here in our unit and it seems to be geographical. I'm stationed in the south, in fly-over country, and as many have written, it is the media and elites on the two coasts that drive the anti-war, "spit on the troops" attitude. I can't count the number of times people have come up to me while I was in uniform and thanked me for my service.

I also would have no problem with women being in charge, as long as it isn't Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton.

It has been well established that the whole "Mission Accomplished" thing was to celebrate the fact that the crew of the USS Abraham Lincoln was finally getting to go home. Their long mission at sea was finally accomplished, as the sign says. The banner was ordered by the captain as a "pat on the back" to his sailors. The Bush ties to the banner are an urban myth that has long abo been corrected, for anyone who bothers to look up the facts.

Who cares what the liberal Left or the liberal Media has said, or for how long they have said it.
They have not diminished the man or the outstanding job he has done defending ALL OF US.

Get your priorities straight. We don't need a President who kisses up to the media like John McCain, or who gets his panties in a wad at EVERYTHING like Barack Obama.

History will defend Mr. Bush in monumental terms. Nice legacy.

Are you freaking kidding me? People are actually trying to sell "Mission Accomplished." Is this the end of reasonable intelligence? There is no question the message the President was trying to convey with that banner. It was pure unadulterated hubris. It was "Phase 1" you say. Well then, why didn't it say "Phase 1 accomplished." The mission is to remove the terrorist elements from Iraq. This is the ONLY mission. That mission has not been accomplished yet and I'm sick of people trying to justify the President's premature theatre act. It was a mistake and it should be treated as such. This bull-headed determination to insist that everything the government has done is correct is the antithesis of what it means to be an American Thinker. Perhaps the site should start calling itself American Unconditional Follower.

Buddy, your strongly held opinion is based on what, exactly? A number of people here have presented facts that are contrary to your opinion, but you remain fixed without any point other than, "You're wrong." You've heard the Bush-hating MSM say it was an arrogant mistake and you blindly follow.

Perhaps you have something to offer other than your MSM-based opinion?

If not, it is clear to me that you are not Thinking, but Unconditionally Following.