How does Obama love Israel?

Who CARES about Israel? Personally, I'd leave them to fend for themselves a little while so they'd be nicer to their neighbors. They don't have a spotless track record either. Israel has been given more then enough aid to take care of themselves. They are the regional bully and I'm sick and tired of the flexing of influence in our election due to a certain block of the American populace.

Obama's intentions can be divined most accurately by a review of his past positions and associations, and those of his closest advisors. Whatever he says in this election year is to get elected, period.

Love.
I love my car. I'd love to see OJ get the death penalty.

You get the idea.

In the case of B Hussien O. let's take a rational look.

Within Islam if you are born of an Islamic father you are Islam. Period. If you change you are apostate and subject to immediate death. So far his status, and I say his further usage as an agent for Islam has allowed him to dodge a big, fat, fatwa calling for the Salmon Rushdie Solution. He is barred from "loving" Israel, so says Islam and Louis Farrakhan, who would have a hissy fit.
Lets go a bit further and examine his adult lifetime 'mentor" Rev G-d D-m AmeriKKKa Wright, whose "love" for Isreal is on par with a teenagers love for an outbreak of acne before the Senior Prom.

B Huessein is a poseur, a fraud, and a fake who promises ill defined "change" that even if it were defined would by definition have to deviate so far from American foreign policy that the change we are talking about is Marxists.In fact the change he has defined is exactly that, Marxist. Cracks are beginning to turn to crevices and then canyons that BO's credibility is cascading into. The further we follow this guy his odor becomes that of fresh dookie.

Yeah, he loves Israel. Just wait til his fellow Muslims, say the Muslim Brotherhood, has to choke that down and then see how he would love the smell of naplam in the morning ..over Israel.

Surely, definitions of love are entirely subjective. I really don't believe one iota of Obama's prfessed love for Israel. Actually, I think Bush has been on the wrong track as well with trying to pressure the Israelis into some "roadmap" deal so he can have something of a legacy. Now, I am not going to go down the road that Obama is a closet Muslim, but it is true that when one is born of a Muslim father one is considered a Muslim. That is how the Muslim world sees BHO. I really believe his sympathy with the Palestinians etc, stems more from a skewed liberal ideology which really despises Israel (which they dare not admit) rather than an overt cheerleading position for jihadist Islam. Sure, Israel's record is not perfect. Yes, they have taken actions which conflicted with American interests and have even gotten hold of intelligence that we didn't intend for their possession. You can argue in Mearsheimer fashion about the power of the American Jewish lobby over Congress and a lot of other things. But when push comes to shove, it is Israel and the United States who are on the same page. Both are western democracies not autocracies or theocracies run by sheiks, mullahs or imams. The Arab mind is a very difficult thing for rational based thinking to wrap itself around. Maybe because Islam itself is not based on reason. Now I am not saying that Arabs or Muslims are stupid, but there seems to be a general lapse reason or rationality when Muslims are presented with certain facts of how the world really is.
I agree with Habu that Obama's definiton of change is a march down the "glorious path" of Marxism which definitely doesn't include a love for Israel, no matter what drivel is emanating from his lips.

People like Habu make me sick. Our constitution and rights are being robbed daily by the present administration and supporters. They have traveled a path that has brought our country to diasterous territories never experienced before. We are hated by so many due to their arrogance. Our economy is broken due to their mismanagement.
Of course we should support Israel, but to base the whole election on that is ridiculous. Charity begins at home and that is where this election should be decided. To those biased beyond reason, I feel sorry for you and your narrow viewpoinr.

Errr. huh?

Pitiful evasion of the question posed in the thread. However, it's your prerogative to show your posterior and executive level lack of knowledge as you have so chosen.

You might want to punch up a wee bit on your ME history, democracy in general, representative governments, and in general things you're attempting to address but failing miserably to articulate, no doubt out of ignorance.

However, I really should heed the old maxim that states that if a chap is making a fool of himself, simply get out of the way and let him proceed...the floor is all yours.

Katiec,

Are you a minor or is this an adult rant? Let me see if I can remedy the sickness by addressing some of the points you mentioned but are tragically erroneous.

" Our constitution and rights are being robbed daily by the present administration and supporters"

Obviously the question would be, how? The Bill of Rights only extends to Ten, so if they've been stolen it was done years ago. But hey, you're still exercising free speech so there's one "they" missed. Buy the theft being done by supporters I guess you mean the people of the United States that elected President Bush. Have you abandon free elections?

"They have traveled a path that has brought our country to diasterous territories never experienced before. We are hated by so many due to their arrogance. Now when in the same sentence you say, "We are hated by so many due to their ignorance" you're saying that those who hate us are ignorant? That is what you're saying whether you understand the syntax or not.

Katiec, please consult the history of the ME. You might take a look at the actions of Thomas Jefferson vs. the Barbary Pirates. And by the way do you really want to be embraced by an ideology, Islam, that demands all infidels die? Your choice. I think I'll stick with freedom of religion..oops another freedom "they" missed confiscating.

"Of course we should support Israel, but to base the whole election on that is ridiculous"

The entire election is based on Israel? Golly, I gotta start reading more. I thought elections were about open debate on a range of topics and then the people decide. Wow, learn something new every day..Israel huh, the entire election..geez.

"I feel sorry for you and your narrow viewpoinr" (sic)

Now that is truly risible.

Ok, the verdict is in...juvenile rant.

I hope I'll live to see the day when a courageous individual running for our highest elected office doesn't pander to Israel and the pro-Israel lobby. Why should any politican have to profess "love" for Israel - as some kind of litmus test for holding office - more than, say, Ireland, or Italy, or Sweden, or Jamaica, Chile, etc. Should Israel's security be of concern to the U.S.? Of course! Definetly! Should we be concerned about the suffering of the Palestinian people as well? Again, of course; definitely! But we know, that even the slightest show of symnpathy for the suffering of Palestinians is enough to cause many in the jewish community to question some candidate's committment to Israel. How sad this is.

And of course, any legitimate criticism of Israeli policies is widely seen as anti-semitism, pretty much the same way that SOME blacks see certain criticism of the black community by non-blacks as racism. Ridiculous!

There is much blame to be placed on the Palestinian leadership, past and present, and the use of terrorism as a tool by some, for the suffering of the Palestinian people today, but it is not all their fault, as many in the jewish community would have us believe. The excuse for the brutal occupation is to stop the terrorists in the West Bank and Gaza. That's not entirely the case. Israel's intention is to controll the entire area and to deny Palestinian self-rule. In the 70s and 80s, Israel secretly undermined, and in some cases, assasinatd many Palestinian moderates because they were nationalists. The thing is: these are the people (excluding Arafat, of course) with whom Israel stood the best chance with negotiations. The intention was to destroy the moderates, leave the extremists who will never peacefully negotiate with Israel, and then claim, disingenuously, that Israel doesn't have a credible partner for peace with the Palestinians. Granted, Abbas is a moderate, but he is weak.

Israel cannot hope to be taken seriously when, on the one hand, it says it wants peace, and on the other hand, it is expanding it's settlements beyond the 67 borders. I know many Americans don't know this, but the settlements are planted all over the West Bank, now separated by walls (many Palestinians are being deprived of their lands). The West Bank is now so balkanized that any hopes of a viable, contigious Palestinian state is now almost impossible. But this was the intention of Israel all along, you see.

In the meantime, Israel hopes to continue its brutal occupation and expects the Palestinian people to sit down and behave like good little natives.

Habu is a skilled polemicist who is also fun to read. A rare combination.

Err Huh? Israel is not the bully here - it never was. And Lloyd, those Palestinian "moderates" who were "assassinated" by Israel were in fact terrorists; real Arab moderates were killed by the Palestinians.

Israel did not start the conflict with its Arab neighbors, those Arab neighbors did that. The whole "Palestinian state" argument is an argument for an historical fiction - there never was any "Palestinian state," just a strip of land called Palestine by Britain populated by Jews (the native race) and Jordanian Arabs who would be called "Palestinians" only after the failure of Arab aggressors to conquer Israel.

We need people to get real around here.

Michael said: "...those Palestinian "moderates" who were "assassinated" by Israel were in fact terrorists; real Arab moderates were killed by the Palestinians." Of course it is in your interest to say this. It was Israel who was responsible for the killing of a number of prominent Palestinian moderates, either directly or through their Arab agents.

You are right. There was never a 'Palestinian' state just as there never was a Jewish state for almost 2000 years. You should note that jews were a minority in the territory of Palestine prior to founding of the modern
state of Israel.

What is beyond dispute is that the State of Israel was brutally imposed on the Arab peoples of Palestine, most of whom had their lands deprived, were driven away, or fled out of fear for their lives. There were both jewish and arab death-squads that committed attrocities. In subsequent years, Arab countries attacked Israel and were defeated, and Israel took the opportunity to sieze those lands, not for bargaining purposes in exchange for a just peace, as the propoganda goes, but for the physical expansion of Israel proper.

Yes, there has been violence on both sides, but any reasonable person will note that the 'net violence' has been directed against the Palestinians.

The new addition of the comments is so delightful. Closet intellectuals and complete morons are commenting. At least everyone is reading this excellent site. I visit this site first every day because I know I will find something here to chew on, but I am glad to see the morons are reading too!

katiec - On what planet, er, in what solar system are you residing? Certainly not on earth. The Constitution has been under assault for years by left wing nut cases. When were your rights robbed from you by the present administration? Are you referring to ease-dropping on conversations between terrorists in this country and abroad? They can listen in on my conversations anytime they want as I have nothing to hide. Do you? If ease-dropping helps find and kill the terrorists, I'm all for it. When you say we have traveled a path that has brought us to disastrous territories we have never traveled before, perhaps you are reffering to the liberal Supreme Court decision of Wade vs Roe which has resulted in the death of 46 million babies. By the tone of your comments, you are probably unemployed but the economy, while slowed, is not broken. Maybe you missed it but the economy and stock market have been booming for several years. We are only hated by our enemies abroad and the socialist Democrats here. Have you seen the latest elections in Europe, conservatives have been elected as the populace has grown tired of liberal lies and failings. Something tells me you think Jimmy Carter was a great president.

To Habu - good response to Err. huh?

Apologies for posting a rough draft. This conveys the message more clearly.

The hinge on which the US-Israeli gate swings is one forged of democratic ideals.

Those ideals are not found in the Islamic world. Philosophically the Islams live in a world where the word philosophically can't really be used. They have a barbarous religion which treats women as chattel,or worse,endorses stoning deaths to people who hold hands, and suicide bombings using mentally challenged people as couriers of death. They are guided by tribal laws that are too easily triggered into bloodshed the origins of which stretch back a thousand years. In general they are not of this century nor were they of the last. It is they who have sworn to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth. It is they who sided with Hitler and the Nazi's in the war that attempted that very thing. They have added nothing to civilization since adding the zero to the number system, and how ironic it is that that is what they amount to today, zero.

I can think of no more treacherous people on Earth at this time, and a look around the globe will bear out the truth that 90% of terrorism is Islamic in origin. Until they can learn to conduct themselves like civilized people, where young teenage girls aren't forced to have clitorectomies, women can drive cars or have a say in their own lives then the civilized world will have to remain vigilant to their depravity. We weren't on 9-11 and it cost us...and it changed the world. It should have.

The reason Israel is precious to America is because the ancient moral tradition of the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Man is 100% Hebrew. All Western standards of human rights and duties begin with the Israelites' escape from Egyptian slavery 4000 years ago. The Pilrim's escape from the Old World, and the endless stream of immigrants to this country ever since, is a continuation the same Hebrew imperative to build a safe haven for the freedom loving peoples of the world.
What's more, most of the money raised to finance the American revolution of 1776 was Jewish. The old Diaspora families of Europe saw a parallel between America and Canaan, the Promised Land, and knew that sponsoring the liberation the British Colonies would provide a sanctuary for their own persecuted minorities. You don't believe it? Look at the back of a $1 bill. That Star of David is an official memorial to the Hebrew midwife in the birth of our Nation. Per force, it is America's sacred duty to support Israel in its birth and childhood as a nation.
In principle, modern Israel is America itself, smack-dab in the heart of the most slavish, most tyrannic society on earth. ISLAM means "Submission". If you have any regard for the sanctity of human life and liberty, you will instinctively cherish the State and people of Israel.

To Habu - well said, again!

To Anonymous - It would serve no purpose for Israel to kill moderate Palestinians. Perhaps your idea of a moderate is what most sane people would call a terrorist. Israel did not sieze any land. They simply held onto the land they conquered while defeating their enemies during the Six Day War, which they did not start, and for good reason. This land has acted as a buffer between Israel and its hostile neighbors and they would be foolish to give it back (the West Bank to Jordan, who captured and annexed the area during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and the Golan Heights to Syria). Please note there was never a Palestinian state to give this land back to. Every time Israel has made concessions in the name of peace, they have been attacked by Palestinians with the support and blessings of Israel's hostile neighbors. The State of Israel was not brutally imposed on anyone. There are many "Palestinians" who are properous citizens of Israel. The Palestinians" were offered a state of their own but they, as they do today, preferred war over peace. While more Palestinians have died during the many years of conflict, any "reasonable" person would agree the conflict has always been initiated by the Palestinians and their supporters. I do not worship at the alter of war but there are times when war is necessary. Had the United States given Israel the green light to loose the dogs of war, perhaps they would not be faced with the problems they face today.

Bill M,
Gracious thanks. I am simply trying to keep pace with your erudition.

When viewed along the vast corridor of history, any dispassionate observer will note that the crimes of Islam pale in comparison to those of Christianity and Judaism. The persecution of non-christians (and even 'undesirable christians') by the Christian church during the middle (dark) ages, the crusades, the inquisition, the war on freedom of conscience, it's complicity in the hollocaust, are well documented. And in the Hebrew Bible, the horrendous brutality of the jewish people is well documented: laying waste entire cities, systematically slaughtering men women and children (leaving the virgins, of course), confiscating territory, slavery (though it argues that it was nothing to compared to African chattel slavery), and all kinds of attrocities on the way to the 'promised land.' If Joshua were alive today, he'd be charged with war crimes. But it was all OK because, you see, God told them to do it, so there's the legitimacy.

But I take your point though, that both Judaism and Christianity have had their 'enlightenment' while Islam has not. Most jews and christians are deeply embarrassed about certain periods and events in their histories. I maintain though, that religious extremism is being curtailed in western societies because of secular laws and institutions - by enlightenment values - and not because christians and jews are inherently more tolerant than muslims.

When the Soviet Army was finished with rescuing Auschwitch, Obama's uncle did his bit. Or was it Obama's great uncle, or maybe Brad Pitt...

Anyway, Obama loves judes and soldiers, even though he hasn't served himself.

Actually the ideals of democracy are not Jewish or Christian, They are Greek, Jewish God is of wrath and destruction, Christians like Muslim are for spreading their religion around the world nobody has butchered more than Christians in history and nobody ever will. Mind you the concept of a single God came from Iran, 100's of years before it came to Israelis. Its a question of controling the media, that is who gets most support, Amer4ica has a Christian tradition, not a Judeo Christian identity as the media is trying to say. Christianity and JKudaism are oppossed as Judaism is for Jews, and Christianity like Islam is for anybody. Judeo Christianity is one of the largest lies of the media.

-Lloyd

I certainly hope you haven't overlooked the secular institutions of the Stalinist and Maoist regimes which have accounted for far more deaths than Christianity and Judaism combined. The problem with atheistic regimes is that they take all of the virtues away from society. The absence of these virtues allows for the establishment of totalitarian regimes which show total disregard for the sanctity of human life.

Oh, and a question, have western societies, which are held up by secular laws and institutions, curtailed Islam's extremism in Europe, because I seem to remember bombings in London and Madrid, and Danish cartoonists being murdered for expressing their opinion.

"I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curseth thee" that is the reason we don't ignore israel and that is the reason that we vote against a hamas-loving,terrorist sympathiser (or worse)racist church goer for a president

it's not about israel here: it's about obama. If you're anti-israel, then yeah support obama whole-heartedly.

However, if you are pro-israel (which according to opinion polls 4/5th of the americans with an opinion on the issue is), then don't be fooled by this man's lies. Like someone posted before: obama just wants to get elected. Like a car-salesman he will say whatever he thinks people like to hear, but when in office, well hey memories are short and he will just do whatever he intends.

His friends and innercircle is filled with israel-haters. That's the tell-tale. Not his hollow promises. Truly, for the jewish people obama is a threat, a very big one, i think the biggest since A. Hitler (who also got elected democratically...)

Remember that when Israel was re-created, the Jews were expelled, (or murdered) from the surrounding Arab nations.

At one time 40% of Bagdad was Jewish. Jews have lived throughout the Middle East and North Africa before there even was an Islam religion, which BTW, came from Judaism.

And, look at the damn map. Israel has this little tiny slice of land, while the Arabs have an 1000s of times the territory. It's amazing they can't defeat Israel.

And what has come from these great Arab lands? Persia was an intellectual powerhouse, it's where they invented Algebra, and now, there's been NOTHING coming from Iran or any of these nations while Israel contributes so much to the world in science, medicine, math, the arts, all while surrounded by people that want to kill them.

If the Palestinians want peace, than start putting the energy into building greenhouses and businesses. Do something useful. Israel absorbed everyone, the Arabs can work together too.

The Jews expect nothing from the countries that expelled them, and have built an incredible nation of learning. Israeli Arabs have more rights, are better educated, can be elected to Knesset, serve in the IDF, and have a higher standard of living than any Arab nation.

Why Israel? It's the powerhouse of the intellectual leadership. Intel, Oracle, and many companies do their top R&D in Israel. It is the leader in R&D with stem cell research, including spinal and neurological injuries, and they share this with the world.

Israel contributes to the world. Let the Palestinians start doing something besides hate.

Beach Runner

Lets see: the palestians can't be happy for these reasons,they are masochists for self inflicted wounds (pain), if you have no peace in your mind then you are probably not right with the Lord. If you hate the Lord then why on earth would you incorporate five books of the bible in your kuran/coran whatever it is? Israel retaliates only because of an attack, never pre-emptive in modern times. All the land , farms, and housing that the palestinians got on the concessions (giveaway)for the sake of peace? is all trashed to this date. You can never satify the evil one; he wants it all and wants it now. When the change of guard in Israel takes place (this will happen) very soon, the palestinians will be a thing of the past.

DAVID-I agree that Obama is not pro Israel. I have always supported Israel and cannot understand how the Jewish community could vote for this man. If the American Jewish community does not give a fat rat's you know what about Israel how can they expect any christian American to. If the Jewish vote goes for Obama I am sure I will not be alone in withdrawing my support for Jewish causes.

Over 3 billion/year coming from American tax dollars straight to Israel (that is 1/2 of what we allot for "developing countries"). Israel is a leech and a failed experiment. Truman was the worst president in history for allowing this to happen. People on this site seem to forget that there were also a massive number of Christian Palestininas who have been displaced as a result of this experiment. Let's not forget - Ashkenazi jews are not and never were the "seed of Abraham". Abraham's seed is confined inside "security fences" that grab land from their rightful owners. What would we (USA) do if the Native Americans continued to this very day to fight for land they believed was theirs? Could you blame them?What happens to ones self when you see your brother, sister,mother, father killed. No freedom of movement no liberty. America would be so much better off if we simply cut ties with the Apartheid State of Israel. Complete Divestment in '09.

To Habu, Beach Runner, and many other posters on this page, Thank You. I am your typical Jewish American in many ways. I come from a line of holocaust survivors and victims just the same; I attend Shabbat every friday night and I recite the Sh'mah upon lying down and rising up. One way that I differ from the majority of other Jews, however, is in my political affiliation. I am by all means of the word a Republican. I am also a supporter of Israel and thus a Zionist. Please, don't lose your will to support Israel because of the votes of the majority of Jews. I have always told myself that I would vote for the better candidate based on a few issues, regardless of political party. This is why I am 100% supporting Mr. McCain in his run for office. Obama is indeed surrounded by anti-semites and he doesn't make any great efforts to separate himself from them. After all, the greatest indicator of a person is the group of people he or she chooses to surround his or herself with. Obama chooses Islamic Jew haters. In reform Judaism there is the element of CHOICE. Obama chooses to associate himself with Jew-haters; I choose to vote for McCain in 08. G-d bless America, Israel, and all people of the world who support Israel.

The very Muslims screaming "Death to Israel" also scream "Death to America". During WWII, the Mufti of Jerusalem, was alligned with Hitler and had 2 'SS' divisions. The Mufti was committed to killing the 900,000+ Jews in then Palestine, while that area has been Jewish for 5000 yrs. and Jerusalem, Jewish for over 3000 yrs.. The same supporters of Hitler then, cowardly deny the Holocaust they supported but want to finish the job now. Those who want 'peace' with Israel have been murdered as have many in the Christian community. You can't make peace with those who want to kill you. The fact that Israel keeps playing the U.S. game which is to cater to Arab/Muslim oil is why today's blackmail of the U.S. and global economies and this insanity to cater to these Islamic Nazis who are only interested in killing Jews, Christains, Hindus, Bhuddists, their fellow Muslims and of course all 'infidels', including those writers who hate Israel and Jews. So what's new? When the Jews went out of 'slavery' from Egypt, this land was theirs as a 'Covenant' from G-d, bought and paid for in blood and the only answer today is for the West Bank Arabs to federate with Jordan and the Gaza Arabs with Egypt. That this 'road map' to divide Israel and Jerusalem is from Saudi Arabia, responsible for "9/11", global terrorism and oil blackmail affecting the global food supply and over 30,000 dying daily of starvation shows the full extent of the Jew-bashing and Israeli bashing but little to no concern for those dying by these hateful politics. Oh, if Israel only had oil. I urge you to go to www.defendjerusalem.net for our activism in resisting the Islamic Nazis. Even if you hate Jews, if Israel goes, America is next as well as the West. Why don't you get it and stop making excuses for the mass killings by these Islamic Nazis no different than that of their German counterparts. Oh by the way, how about all those Nazi mass murderers who were brought into the Arab countries to help finish the job. Does anyone think that G-d forbid if a nuke is thrown upon Israel by Iran, that the PA Arabs will survive any of it? Or for that matter, that the world won't go up in flames as well? Israel will have to strike Iran within the next 6 months. That's how long you have to make a decision on continuing this Israel-bashing.

Agree with Truman. Why Christians should support Israel? America is loosing its reputation because of those ties. Why don't we support poor and weak countries with Christian population (Latin America, the persecuted Eastern Christians, etc.)
US (Christian) funds could be used as follows:
1 - to convert Muslims into Christianity and teach them how to love peace and hate war; provide an education for poor Muslim population, etc.;
2 - to prevent appearance of the next possible Hitler or other threat to Christian community throughout the globe;
3 - convert Jews into Christianity and then support them with preconditions, plus teach them how to be tolerant (or not haughty) towards Christians and MAKE THEM STOP CONFRONTING CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS for Christ's sake.

Look at Russia - Christian (officially secular of course) state with big Muslim population (like US), but it does not have problems with Muslims (Iran, Iraq, etc.). I think the reason is because Russia does not let Jewish or any other lobby raise its head - not bad idea.

I am not anti-Semite - I dream to see all religions and nations live in peace, but lately the tricks of world Jewish community do not make this dream come true.

To Marcus Silver
Mr. Silver said "ancient moral tradition of the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Man is 100% Hebrew" ...
This is not convincing, because killing of Christ, an innocent person, was not a good brotherhood example, was it?

To Bob Kunst
Muslims started killing Christian because Christians got brainwashed by Jews. Before Israel was founded Christians did not have problems with Muslims and Muslims were not mad with Christians. Iran was pro-European and pro-US, wasn't it?
Dear Jews, you better stop setting Christians against Muslims and v.v. or one day (hope G-d does not allow this) both denominations will realise what is actually happening here.

[This may sound cynical, but let's not forget that 9/11 attack authors aimed Jews, but the actual victims were the Christians, Muslims and...to lesser degree - Jews)